Interviewing York

Previous problems voiced by traders and residents had been:

• Traders in Newgate market felt neglected by the council
• Parliament Street ‘robbing’ local market’s footfall
• Lendal bridge’s closure confusing to visitors
• Worry that council’s plans are aimed ONLY to improve visitor’s experience.
• Overpriced parking charges
• York’s streets are unclean and dirty.

Looking back at some previous problems that went unanswered, I decided to have another session of communicating with the users of York. This time, I was more prepared and brought along a list of questions to be asked in order to get a clearer picture. Me and Carey approached people in the train station and then also people in the streets of York. I used my phone to record the conversations as not to interrupt the flow of conversation and make the interviews more pleasant experience. In all the interviews we introduced ourselves as part of York St. John University and explained this was a project to find issues within York. All interviewees are anonymous.

Transcripts of more formal conversations from a range of people in the city Centre of York; Consists of conversations from elderly couples, residents or visitors, long term visitors and also first time visitors.   

Elderly couple living in York. Man and woman with a dog. They were travelling to London for a few days and waiting on a bench in York Station.

Me: “Do you find York clean?”

Woman: “No, not at all. We been to Holland… that is absolutely spotless. Much better organised than York. Theres too much traffic signs to tell you what to do. In the Netherlands, you are much more left to your own devices. Street furniture. To many street furniture. There would be four or five road signs one after another, and then a tree covering some more signs…..Waste a lot of money on signs, social services with King’s Square. Five hundred thousand for that.”

Man: “Instead of putting up a platform for the entertainer, they’ve ripped up all the cobbles.”

Woman: “it’s been in the national paper(telegraph) there was a disabled woman and she said ‘there’s no need to take away the cobbles. All they had to do was put somewhere through where you could get a wheelchair through. They obviously got the money to spend it, you know.”

Me: “I heard that they (council) have three million over the next ten years.”

Woman: “I think that the money could be better spent.”

Me: “Where would you like that money to be spent?”

Woman: “Well coming out of York. It’s always spent on things to improve for the visitors. They say King’s square. They put it up so they can perform. Now I’m personally not interested in the performers. I’d much prefer it so that York can organise themselves better. Better bus service, bus station. Re-organise around here. If you park your car around here and collect everybody, its atrocious; you can take half an hour getting out of the carpark…..It’s much tidier and neater in Harrogate, nice flower beds done and very smart. Very smart in Harrogate, York does'nt have that smartness.”

Me: “There are a lot of things to see in York though”

“Yes, yes there are a lot of things to see in York. But that is tourist isn't it? There's no point going if you live here. We moved here threee years ago, and I thought it would be absolutely wonderful go to to York shopping. And now I don't go anymore.”

Me: “Well, when you first came, initially you liked it?”

Woman: “Well, I went a few times and thought it was a waste of time. There's so many tourists and all they interested in is the tourist thing. They have a coffee, go to the dungeons, go to castle museum and they off again. Here are people who eventually, like us, or who can't drive, have to rely on the bus. Now I can't catch a bus to get to clifton moor. Now I can't even catch a bus to go to Morrisons or waitrose. I can't get a bus from home to the hospital. I have to get off at the theatre and then get to the hospital and I only live in the Mound.”

Me: “Can you think of any solutions then? What would you like the council to do?”

Woman: “I would like them to provide a bus station, a proper bus station and reorganise the traffic around her, around the station. Stop all this 'you get off the bus and wait for the bus drivers'. Cos there's no proper organised buss station. If you want people to stop coming in by car, you need to provide a good bus service. Instead of have these 61 seater buses when there are 4 people, have a lot of little minibuses running around the town.

They don't have public meetings. If they have public meetings, they already decided that this is labour conservative policy and whatever you say if it was a twenty million to one. That one person would still vote because its government policy today.

Like the other week, nothing to do with practicality. If you're coming in from the city theres a sign up saying 'Cyclists please dismount'. So i'm walking down there and there's a gentleman coming to wards me on a bike. I say to him 'Do you mind dismounting?'. I was being ever so nice. I said it asks you to dismount. But he wouldn't do. It asks you to dismount by the Minster but they don't do. They go through the red lights, it doesn't apply to them.

They allow foreign people to come along and sell their wares and sort of pushing Newgate market sort of out, so people don't go to it. They should be promoting something local. We're trying to get Britain on the map not Germany, France or anywhere else. We want to get Britain on the map. You feel like you're at the bottom of the pile, very much so. Andthey seem to take more notice of somebody whos a comer-in and the locals. People put up with it for so long and then...'.it is cruel' (man)”

Micklegate

Distractions and illusions

I went into Micklegate from Ousegate then across Ouse bridge. I found that walking on the right pavement was a little tight as it was two people’s width, but as you get closer to the bridge it does widen out. This could be not welcoming for visitors to walk across Ousebridge, and they may instead turn into Spurriergate. Once on the bridge it was pleasant and wide enough for many people. Although the barriers are a little high and solid stone, it’s not quite as appealing as walking on Lendal bridge. Also, the views are definitely not as nice as Lendal bridge’s. Looking south on the bridge shows a lot of hard surfaces, and industrial looking buildings. It is not particularly interesting but there are steps to get to the river bank. Here are benches for the pub located here and the cobbles are interesting. This route may also be more appealing for visitors than going across the bridge. Once over the bridge along bridge street is enjoyable with plenty of room for visitors.

South view from Ouse Bridge - stairs leading to riverside pub

Once I got to Micklegate, looking up the curved cobbled road and green. It is actually very alluring to go up. It is a little steep, but is not an issue with elderly as I saw a few venture up this incline. The steepness may be an issue for wheelchair users, but the pavements are not uneven. Actually, since I rarely come to this side of town, I was actually very surprised to see that this street has been the most pleasant out of all the during the site surveys. The street is spacious, inviting, clean and there is very few traffic running up and down this road. It is very pedestrian friendly. At the top of this street are nice varieties of shops/restaurants, architecture and also leads to the City walls. This makes the experience confusing as surely such a great street would be popular, but clearly it doesn't receive much footfall in comparison the others. There are a few shops closing down so what is the issue with this street?

Majestic entrance into Micklegate.

The only thing I can really say is that it can be a bit difficult to find. It can be tempting for visitors to go to Spurriergate or walk along the banks of the river Ouse. So unless you cross Ouse bridge, you would not see it. Then there is one other way to get to Micklegate: from Rougier street. This route connects to lendal bridge near the train station. But walking towards Micklegate from here is not very pleasant at all. There are many bus stops to one side and also this street is quite dim from the surrounding high buildings.

Distinct shops and little traffic flow makes an enjoyable street.

Duncombe Place

Duncombe Place

Duncombe Place is situated on the western side of the Minster and is a wide road that has restricted vehicle access during the day. At the end of this street sits Minster Plaza with Petergate crossing it from left to right. There is very little traffic flowing through this road, but this area is very often used by people to turn their cars. This area is important because it actually has a lot going on. Firstly, there are a nice variety of architecture, from the old York Dispensary, Antique Centre, St. Wilfred's church, Dean Court hotel and of course the Minster Cathedral. The area is very visually stimulating. Each building has character and texture to them that you wont see anywhere else in York, and also it leads directly onto the Minster Plaza. As well, there are horse and cart rides starting from here as well as a Mini train that takes visitors to and from the National Railway Museum.

(left to right) Antique Centre, St Wilfred's, Deancourt Hotel, Minster and old York Dispensary.

What is it's U.S.P?

After spending a good hour in this area, it seems to me that not many people took much notice of the elegant buildings. Most tourists I saw came across Lendal Bridge and then onto Blake Street, even though the Minister is clearly visible as you walk up. But it seems they clearly feel more comfotable to turn right and then into Stonegate towards the Minster. Personally, I would have gone straight into Duncombe place to get a closer look, and then after visiting that, I'd move past and then come back down into Stonegate. Although I kind of understand, because the flow of traffic into Blake Street is quite evident, many people would follow. This and also the fact that there are a lot of vehicle signs and road surfaces that make it more intimidating to cross this street. I also think the trees block the view of the Minster and also make it less inviting. I feel this should be more open and inviting. There is a lack of activity here just like Exhibition square. But the question is whether the city needs more footfall in this street? What does this street offer and is there a demand for it?

In Hong Kong, there are very specific areas to be shopping if you are after the most up-to date products. There are literally streets and areas, named “Sneakers street”, or “Computer market” or “Ladies Market”. These places have developed such that it has become the place to go when purchasing trainers. Is it plausible to have similar things in York? I know that when people come to York, they expect to see the historic features such as City Walls, York Minster and Shambles etc. But there are also people who come to York to go shopping. Can areas of York almost be 'Glorified' in that zones can be made to cater to different user groups; visitors get to see what they want?

Sneaker street in Hong Kong (image from tripadvisor.com)

Exhibition square/St. Leonards Place/ Bootham

Exhibition square/St. Leonards Place/ Bootham

Bootham bar is a popular gateway to the minster from Gillygate and also from Bootham. However, there is more pedestrian traffic going down St. Leonard’s place towards the city centre. Bootham bar leads into High Petergate and is a lovely little street. It’s like a little introduction into York and helps really emphasises the size of the Minster. After emerging from this tight street, it opens up into Minster plaza; a really lovely, open space to enjoy the architecture. Duncombe Place connects to the plaza from the right. Straight ahead leads to Low Petergate and branches out into the busier areas of York.

Bootham bar is a rather unwelcoming place. It is usually quite dark, and a common place for some homeless people. Next to it, are some public toilets, and beside this are steps to get onto the City walls. It’s an alright place really, just not really a point of interest. Which leads me to think; should this be a point of interest? There is an Art gallery opposite, and a lovely row of buildings where the York council offices used to be, called the De Grey Rooms. There are a lot of visitors that exit the City walls here and I feel this place is very under appreciated. It feels like the Art gallery should be a great place to relax and rest. The De Grey Rooms are beside the Royal Theatre and often rented out for use as rehearsal space. But at the moment, it’s more like a way point to get from A to B. I think Exhibition square should really be a place where people can sit down and enjoy a cup of tea and socialise with locals as well as visitors. It's a place where arts are appreciated and loved. It reminds me of outdoor cafes and the days of creative minds in the streets of Paris. It may be a very romantic view, but I believe is very fitting outside a gallery as well as being a four minute walk to the Minster. At the moment, with the Art gallery under-going refurbishment and vehicles dominating the space. There is not a lot going on for visitors to enjoy.

Homeless residing under Bootham Bar.  Leaves and fag ends litter the streets

Bootham’s Bottleneck

I think the issue is the very tight bottlenecking at the top of St Leonard’s Place. Crossing Gillygate to get to St Leonard’s is a bottleneck and the pavements are only the width of two people. This road is a major junction to get in and around York by car and there's also a large flow of people. There are many people trying to get into the city from this direction. This results in large crowds of people building around here from people trying to get into the city centre in a small space.

On Bootham, there are two boarding schools, St. Peters and Bootham school. They house a large portion of their students on this street and many like to commute into York through this junction. Gillygate car park is large, and also accommodates coaches. So it’s not a surprise to see large groups of tourists being lead down this way. Having a large flow of car and pedestrian traffic really makes this spot uncomfortable for both parties. Something needs to be done.

Junction - heavy use of  traffic lights, and cramped paths.

The closure of Lendal bridge has helped to reduce traffic down Bootham, but it has diverted a lot of traffic round Leeman road and also Lord Mayor’s Walk. Pedestrian traffic is more comfortable walking around this area due to less car traffic, but even so, I do not think people would use the space differently. At the moment, Exhibition square is almost void of activity because of the refurbishment of the Art Gallery, but also because there are no shops, no interests and no activity. Mostly, people are trying to get into town via this street and then onto Blake St. There a line of bus stops, Royal Theatre, De Grey Rooms and the York Art Gallery to be of interest in this street. There are no places to rest here and no shops to discover. Also, the busy traffic queuing at the traffic lights is dominating very unappealing. Visitors do not feel comfortable in this space; otherwise they would spend more time here.

Site survey - Fossgate continued

Location, location, location

The other big issue I found about this street is that actually not the street at all. It is the location of this street. Access to this street is rare because, as a visitor from Parliament Street, Shambles and Colliergate, there is nothing to attract you into this street. Stonebow really is an eyesore due to a grey mass to deter you from this area, and is not really helped by Jobcentres, betting shops and 'to let' signs plastered on it.

Map of Parliament st. and Fossgate area.

If you walk from the shambles into Stonebow, you look left and see a large unappealing grey building; a 1950’s piece of architecture. It is so dull and uninteresting that you wouldn’t want to go to that direction, and because there are no other visual cues or interests, people would not even wander in that direction. Fossgate is in this direction. Look right however, you see a Victorian black and white timber structure, a lovely white stone Marks and Spencer, and then a pointed church in the distant. Also, the buzzing number of people in this direction is clearly visible and audible because Parliament street is in that direction.

From Parliament street, there is a lot more footfall turning right, which is tempting for a tourist. You want to see where the main attractions are, so you follow the crowd. Therefore most people tend to do up High Ousegate or Coppergate. However, if you do end up going left towards Fossgate. You pass the Shambles, which is always buzzing with people. Many people will explore up here. If you don’t, and continue up the street, you reach Colliergate to your left. From here, the choices for a visitor now become three: An open, welcoming street up colliergate, an ugly grey apartment-looking building down Stonebow, or a small alley to the right (Fossgate). Colliergate is clearly the winner here because it is clearly pedestrian friendly: There are tree shrubs, bike racks and wide open pavements.

Lastly, walking from Colliergate to Stonebow, Fossgate is directly opposite. It is right in your face, but the entrance is not very appealing at all. It just looks like any other ordinary side street, there is no crossing to get to the other side, there are no signs pointing to it. To the left is the ugly, grey building again, so the only option if right, back towards Shambles and Parliament Street.

Stonegate House, a visitor deterrent.

Personal Insights into York – A Site Survey

After a thorough examination of York over the past three weeks, I have learned a lot. I have talked to many people in York, from tourists and residents to even traders. So there is quite a range of people to examine. Plus, seeing the local newspapers' articles confirms a lot of these opinions. There is a a clear resistance against the Council's actions, but there seem to also be a lot of accusations. So far, I have yet to see any evidence of poor conduct from the Council apart from some signage issues. That everything they have done is according to regulations and there has been evidence of trying to communicate their plans publicly. But as the saying goes “there is no smoke without fire”, I will continue to delve into this more.

However, I feel it is time for me to try discover York in my own eyes. Since, I do not tend to examine everything when I go into York, I will always miss out on points others will not. I have been here many years, and like seeing close family everyday, you will not see the change. I will be doing site surveys of all the areas and taking a closer look, keeping in mind the different groups of users in York.

   

Fossgate - A Cold welcome

At the entrance, there is a large banner saying “The Ultimate street of local independent businesses” To me, it looks cheap and not really that appealing. To say it is the ultimate street and then displaying it with a cheap flimsy banner is like the false advertising on replica goods in Hong Kong. It doesn’t look good, and doesn’t convey the message of ‘ultimate’. The plastic flutters in the wind and difficult to read, it’s more like a warning sign – ‘stay away’. The sign post at the entrance doesn’t direct visitors to the street and is actually more ornate and more in keeping with the rest of York. Take a look at Newgate market’s bold, cast iron sign. It is so much more interesting. The sign is important because it’s a gateway into a new space. A gateway should make people going through it feel like they have entered a new space, whatever that space is. Clearly, there is not enough foot fall in this street, and the problems are not solved by wafting a plastic banner the faces of visitors. For a street, it’s alright, but once you start to glorify this street with the words – ultimate, local, independent. It feels like a desperate attempt to entice visitors. However, I have to say that Fossgate shops are very decent, and a good place to shop.

Another issue I encountered was that the narrow street allows parking on one side and given it’s one-way nature, it does not give pedestrians room to comfortable walk down it. The street as it is, without the banner, visitors become totally oblivious to the existence of this street. Cars dominate this street, with parked cars on one side of the road, and narrow pavements feels like an afterthought. Walking down the street is actually not too bad since there are not a lot of pedestrians, but the issue is when you are a tourist, you tend to look at everything. Visitors like to see the ‘Old York’ and the character of York. I do not walk down Fossgate very often and for me, it was nice to look up and see the lovely variety of architecture showing through. Even the old battered clocked hanging high are lovely and give a lot of character to this place. There are two on this street, but really dwarfed by the one on Coney street. Overall, the street is a joy to explore if there is not a lot of traffic.

York Press continued...

This article by Mark Stead tells that the first week of the Bridge closure has been quite frankly, a battle of two sides: the council and everyone else. There is clearly a lot of opposition against the council: Chris Steward and Coun Ann Reid. The council faced accusations of being incompetant.

However, the article does give Darren Richardson's and coun Dave Merrett's views also; backing the council. They say that the it was not entrapment as many claimed, and not a money making tactic. And finally, the signage was done in accordance to the rules and regulations with the Department of Transport manual.

Here, Coun Tracey Simpson-Laing speaks for the York council to explain the lendal bridge closure and to answer the claims over this “scandal”. Also, in the “I will not return” letter from a visitor expresses his outrage of being fined in the city. He is clearly not happy and was unaware of the closure. He also accuses the council of using this as a “money-making scheme”.

Again, this seems like a failure of communication or inadequate signage issue. There seems to be a trend where many are unaware of the closure, or ignorant of the project's intentions.

York Press

To better understand York Council's projects, a site survey of York is best. Since, the projects are tackling six different areas; I think it is best to examine them in a bit more detail. But so far, I have gathered that there is a wide range of views and aspects of the city that is troubling its users. There are clearly strong views from people in York, and the York Press is one of them. Being the local paper, they are a good source. People write to the paper to express their opinions on matters as well as providing local news, events and opinions.

I was actually really surprised at the huge numbers of issues that the paper publishes. I managed to get papers from early September till early October, and it is quite clear people are not worried about expressing their opinions to York Press. I feel that the paper does a very good job in balancing the two sides and giving both sides a chance to have their say.  There are tourists and residents complaining, complimenting or criticizing something about every aspect of York. However, understanding the points of views of some of these individuals can be misleading and misrepresenting the whole picture.

In this letter, blames the signs for giving misleading information and confusing for visitors. He also says that “York Council hasn't admitted the signs have caused confusion,”. Then finally, he is worried that businesses will be seriously affected by the bridge closure, due to “council doesn't have a viable alternative for cars”.

After some research into this, it is clear that the council has actually held public meetings as well as inviting traders in the city centre to discussions about the closure of lendal bridge on several occasions:

“Please note that four public exhibitions have already taken place on 7 & 8 August and 11 & 12 September. York's business community were also invited to attend one of two business briefings on 14 August.” (York Council website)

http://www.york.gov.uk/info/200174/planning_and_building_control/686/reinvigorate_york/2

Alternative routes and diversions have already been planned and published online. There is a lot of information on the York Council's website. Whether this just shows that some people have not managed to access this information or confused, there seems to be some poor communication.

The Mystery of Newgate Market (Cont...)

Mr John Mannion: friendly and fun to chat with

After this I ran into some colleagues and we ended up talking to a man in the market. He was very cheerful and a jolly man, but he didn't seem to be hard-hit by the busy trade in parliaments street. Unlike, Mr ‘burger trailer’, this man had white hair, clothed in blue shirt and grey trousers, and well weighted. It was clearly doing pretty well and comfortable. I assumed he worked in the market, as he had a working vest to hold his pens and notepad. It was worn and the only piece of item to suggest his relationship with the market. His shoes were leather and he had a large leather strapped time-piece. I later found out his name is John Mannion and runs the fruit and veg stalls as well as a shop on Blake street: Mann and Co. artisan bakery. Mr Mannion's view is that the council is also not in the best interests of the residents and thinks that they favour the extra money made from events like the Food Festival. Regardless of its impacts on the market. Then he goes on to say that the bridge closure is a entrapment; “the act of causing someone to do something they would not usually do by tricking them” (Cambridge British dictionary online 2013)

I hunted for more information in the public library and found nothing, except some photos. I have yet to find a book which mentions it. But online, the York press has description of it:

“Newgate Market

York once had many markets for different products scattered around the city, but since Victorian times a single market has served the city.

The main market was held in Pavement, but moved to Parliament Street and St Sampson's Square in 1837 and stayed there for 127 years before moving to the specially-created Newgate Market - which lies between Shambles and Parliament Street - in 1964.

Set against a backdrop of medieval buildings, Newgate Market offers something for almost everyone.

Over 100 stalls offer a wide variety of dry goods as well as a fine selection of fruit, vegetables, fish and meat.”

There has been so little change to the market since 1964, and I believe there has only been two major changes.  First was that the stalls were installed so that traders would be sheltered without erecting their own.  And second, was that bicycle racks were installed at the rear of the market.

One of the unappealing entrances to Newgate market

Bicycle racks are barely used

In summary, there is clear tension with the traders in the market and the council. But the problem seems to be directed to the city council. I do not see any other arguments about solutions or that the market is unfit or underperforming due to other factors. It would seem very unlikely that the business and trade in the market is entirely due to the strong competition from traders 400 metres away. The council website shows its specialist' market and farmers' market events on it's website. They feature often and seasonally, throughout the year and consistantly. I can understand the local traders frustration, but it should be a sign to up their game and bring business back. What needs to happen to make this a vibrant place to be? How can a market with such a long history exist between the shambles and Parliament st. and still be vulnerable to poor footfall?

Tell us what you think of Newgate market and what can be improved in the comments below.

The Mystery of Newgate Market

After the first fresh look into York for this project, I was surprised at the broad range of views expressed. I began to look at Newgate market. After all, it’s been here for as long as I remember and also that it never was a particularly appealing place for me as a child, to even now. There is always the fruit and veg stalls, and traders selling mobile phone accessories. Then there's the shop selling posters on the floor. They haven't changed much. It never seems to be busy yet it is surrounded by York's the most vibrant and popular streets: Parliament street and Shambles. It is a mystery to me why Newgate Market is such a dull and boring. It has never been an event or place to go to, but generally, I end up using it as shortcut. The traders don't interest me, as do aesthetics of the environment there. What is going on here?

What sparked my interest was a conversation with the burger shop; I knew it had been there for many years and I generally haven't bought from him for a long time. Even so, I approached him and we spoke for a while. I explained that I was working on a project for University and that my aim's was to gain an understanding of the area. What it is like? How is business? Does he enjoy it here? Etc. I was actually expecting him to say that business is alright, considering he has been there for a good number of years and I do tend to see people queue up at his shop. I asked him how he was and how his day had been; His reply was “ Well, it's not been very good actually”. What else could I say except enquire a bit more? There was clearly something amiss.

I didn't record the conversation, but it was clear he had several issues about the current York. Firstly, his business is not doing so well, due to recession making prices high as well as footfall in the Newgate Market. He clearly points out that the council often hires out Parliament street to international, and also regional traders; That is causing a lot of his business to go away. He thinks that the council are happy to rent out the premium spaces on Parliament street at premium rates to cash in on tourists. The situation was clear; the food festival occurring beside the market is much more appealing, and therefore visitors and residents are spending there, and not at his shop.

He also had view on that the council are not looking after his livelihood and are more concerned with generating income from the events in parliament street. Even though, they are premium rates, and he pays a lot less. It's the amount of trade which is diverted so drastically, which frustrates him. His view on the Lendal bridge closure was that he had no idea about this scheme until a few weeks prior to the trial closure.

To be continued...

If you have any stories of Newgate Market, please tell us in the comments below...
we would love to hear about your experiences.

Project Focus

The areas of development has been marked in pink. These will be the main focus:

• St. Leonard's Place/Bootham Bar/ Exhibition square
• Duncombe Place/Blake Street
• King's Square
• Parliament street
• Fossgate
• Micklegate

Due to the open brief of this project, we are able to tackle york in anyway as long as it is service design related. Below, the mind map shows the number of different areas where I could approach this project.

  

Contribute to this project with your views.Please help me by doing this survey if you are 

a York resident.:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6ZSXDR7

a York visitor:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/9CJ96WK